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Piracy

"Hey, you should check out this new game I got", a friend said to me the other day. We went to his place, and honestly I did like it - the game that is; the house was something else entirely. A shooter of a here unnamed title.

It wasn't until later I realised he'd downloaded this piece of art illegally rather than paying for it. And from that moment on, I didn't feel like going back to play it again with him. These days, I often feel I'm the only one obeying the laws of our nations. Heck, even old ladies cross the street despite the flashing red man!

So what is the world going to do about this ever discussed issue? Videogames, movies and perhaps more so, music, are being pirated by the minute. "The businesses will crumble," says some, and that might partly be true - where's the money going to come from if the users don't pay?

But then again, it's important to remember that a similar debate was on when the radio first appeared. Now people could listen to music without buying the records! But as it turned out, the music world survived. And so will the gaming world today, because there will always be a demand for games, and where there's a will there's a way (or rather, where there's a demand, there's a will). And it's still an industry worth billions.

Yet, these billions are generated by the big guys. What about the smaller ones? They're the ones suffering. It's a tough business to break into, and unless your product gets out during the right time and in the right way, you risk losing it all, even if the product is a good one. Often because of the illegal gamers who can't be bothered to pay up for their luxuries.

Piracy is also an issue that won't go away. You can write all the laws you want to, but as long as it's so widely used, it can't be stopped. You can only write successful laws about things a majority of people actually wouldn't do themselves already. And as piracy doesn't fall into that category, no law in the world will be able to get in its way.

So to address the problem, actions do need to be taken. They already are, in fact. With the increase of online distribution, developers are able to make their products available more conveniently to the customers, and to a lower cost on their own account. You don't need to go down to the store when all you need is an internet connection and a credit card, two things nearly everyone has at hand these days.

Other means have also been open for debate. Like a fee being paid to the creators by the internet connection distributors, who in turn charge this money from their customers. But the issue is still fairly new, and only the future will be able to tell the real outcome of what works and what doesn't.

Personally though, I belong to that group of odd people who'd just like to have the product in your hands. To be able to see and feel it, and even flick through the manual just because it feels good; one of those who seldom download even a paid product just because it's nicer to buy it in a physical store. Sure enough, downloading the same thing might be easier - and cheaper - but it simply isn't the same. But unfortunately for us, the future might not look too bright.

In whatever way the industry develops in the future, I have no doubt it will live on. Piracy can't be prevented, and it will force the industry to take new turns. However, the fact still stands: piracy is a crime! So do yourself and the rest of us a favour and buy a copy of the next game you find interesting, rather than getting it through more suspect sources. For now, it's the decent thing to do.

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COMMENTS

Betty_Swallocks
Betty_Swallocks - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

This anti piracy debate has been covered so many times that I really cba to go into it in detail yet again. The long and the short of it is that I will buy all my games when the companies stop treating me like a criminal. I went out and bought Spore yesterday. Then found out that it has this limited online activation malarkey. That isn't going to inconvenience pirates. I know for a fact that impatient people and leechers had been playing the game for 2 days without the online activation making any difference at all. The person it will make a difference to is me in that if they decide (as they reserve the right to in their T&Cs) switch off the servers then I am left without a game. Unfortunately I hadn't found out about this activation before I bought it otherwise they would have been down one sale. As it is that disk is going nowhere near my PC and I have downloaded a pirate copy so that I can actually play the game without the DRM. I don't understand why they can't see that anti piracy measures that penalise the innocent and honest are doomed to failure and drive people into the arms of the pirates. Scenario: Little Johnny goes to school and tells his mates that he is going to spend his pocket money on Space Gerbils Intergalactix Frottage Party 5. His mates all say, "Good luck, the copy protection doesn't work on all DVD drives, you might have to buy a new one (not an exaggeration. It happened to me) and the online activation means that because you're an enthusiast and rebuild your computer regularly you will lose the right to play the game when they switch off the servers." Result? Johnny goes home, saves his money and downloads the copy of SGIFP5, finds it's so much easier than wading through forums to find out why the game won't work and resolves to download everything from now on. Pirates:1 Insane copy protection nazis:0

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L33-1468850516
L33-1468850516 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Space Gerbils Intergalactix Frottage Party 5.

TORRENT PLZ!!!1 I buy all the games I play. If a demo of a game isn't available, I'll evaluate a mexican copy before buying - sometimes this leads to a sale, but more often than not the game is a rushed, buggy/unfinished, overhyped sack of **** or PS2 port and I save myself £20-40. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever buying decent games but I will still use no dvd cracks where possible because as Betty said, some of the anti-piracy measures are ridiculous Bioshock anyone? I bought a game and I'm only allowed to install it 3 times.... what?! Its like buying a movie - you can watch it all you like, but you're only allowed to insert it into the DVD player twice, on the 3rd time you can't watch it anymore. Anyway, no-dvd cracks... COD4, no disc needed for MP as the CD key is checked, but for SP a disc is needed so I use a no-dvd crack for SP only. Yes its lazy, but its a pain keep swapping discs, and I'm not a fan of the mini-isos etc. Worst thing is (again as Betty said), the only people that the anti-piracy software annoys are genuine, paying gamers. Pirates will download a copy with the DRM stuff stripped out (often days before the game goes on sale) so in all honesty what is the point? Developers/publishers have to pay to licence starforce/securom etc, why not just save the cash or invest it back into the game itself?

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Colio-1428100791
Colio-1428100791 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Sorry to be a pedant here, but when you purchase software, you dont "buy" the software. What you buy is the license to use that software. Now companys (rightly or wrongly) put restrictions on that license (in the name of anti-piracy) so that 3 strikes or so and you need a new license.

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olobley-1428101221
olobley-1428101221 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Like the last couple have already said, I nearly always 'evaluate' a game before I commit funds to it. The last couple of times I bought a game on loyalty I was sorely disappointed (UT3) Like the others, I will where possible use a no-cd/dvd patched executable esp. when I'm going to a LAN, as carting 25DVD boxes around is a royal pain the the behind. I think Steam is getting it right (slowly) with the whole digital distribution thing, as (so far) it hasn't grumbled about my (frequent) reinstalls, installs on multiple machines (I have a laptop and a desktop, both of which will play most of the games on my steam list) and takes care of most of the CD Keys & anti-piracy stuff. It's not perfect, but it's pretty close

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Platinum
Platinum - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

This anti piracy debate has been covered so many times that I really cba to go into it in detail yet again. The long and the short of it is that I will buy all my games when the companies stop treating me like a criminal. I went out and bought Spore yesterday. Then found out that it has this limited online activation malarkey. That isn't going to inconvenience pirates. I know for a fact that impatient people and leechers had been playing the game for 2 days without the online activation making any difference at all. The person it will make a difference to is me in that if they decide (as they reserve the right to in their T&Cs) switch off the servers then I am left without a game. Unfortunately I hadn't found out about this activation before I bought it otherwise they would have been down one sale. As it is that disk is going nowhere near my PC and I have downloaded a pirate copy so that I can actually play the game without the DRM. I don't understand why they can't see that anti piracy measures that penalise the innocent and honest are doomed to failure and drive people into the arms of the pirates. Scenario: Little Johnny goes to school and tells his mates that he is going to spend his pocket money on Space Gerbils Intergalactix Frottage Party 5. His mates all say, "Good luck, the copy protection doesn't work on all DVD drives, you might have to buy a new one (not an exaggeration. It happened to me) and the online activation means that because you're an enthusiast and rebuild your computer regularly you will lose the right to play the game when they switch off the servers." Result? Johnny goes home, saves his money and downloads the copy of SGIFP5, finds it's so much easier than wading through forums to find out why the game won't work and resolves to download everything from now on. Pirates:1 Insane copy protection nazis:0

I think your over reacting there mate, whislt it does have activation its not a big issue at all, install / create a account which also lets you share your creatures online / login and play, theres no more hassle there than creating a online account. Are you so set in your ways with regards to anti piracy tactics that you refuse to even give it a go? If you dont like how they go about protecting there products then dont buy it rather than pirate it.

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Beanz
Beanz - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Space Gerbils Intergalactix Frottage Party 5.

.

Richie: It's not very sexy, is it? Eddie: No. I must say, I expected a lot more from "The Furry Honeypot Adventure".

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I download ROMs of old games and I don't care who knows it. I have Pokemon Blue on my mobile phone - I have a cart of Pokemon Blue in my cupboard. When my Mega Drive games were stolen from me I had a collection of probably about 100. I download them now, bam, sorted. If a PC game I own becomes damaged, it's no biggy. Download it. Saves wasting money on another. I'm not 100% on the laws but I'm fairly sure that's legal. I agree with BS - it's like movies. I love my DVD's and videos but I do wish I didn't have to sit through a bunch of irritating language choices - one of which means going to the LAST PAGE to choose English - and copyright stuff every single time I want to watch one.

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I agree with BS - it's like movies. I love my DVD's and videos but I do wish I didn't have to sit through a bunch of irritating language choices - one of which means going to the LAST PAGE to choose English - and copyright stuff every single time I want to watch one.

They have started doing that on gay p0rn? Man i'm glad that ain't my cup of tea. :)

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iNTOXiCATiON
iNTOXiCATiON - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Put simple and even though if it discriminates myself !! If i dont like it i wont buy it - fringe benifit of work is free games and software so at the minute im techincally paying for nothing i own even tho the majority is legitimate. Not a pikey, just sensible, in real terms i help developers and companies in the long run by distributing there merchandise. Film wise i would rather watch a ripped version of a dvd with out all the piracy crap options and all that shizzle, dont get me wrong tho i will goto the cinema and pay to watch but dont expect me to pay fortunes on every film that i have seen at the cinema.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I download movies if I want a movie on my mobile phone. I know I probably shouldn't because more often than not I do not own the movie, but I don't care - there is no other way of purchasing full movies in .3gp format and even if there was I'll be damned if I'm paying money for a 2x2 inch version of Cloverfield. That's like morons who pay a load of money for "realtone" ringtones (or indeed any magazine or TV advertised mobile phone content). But hey - people go on about downloading music which makes me laugh. You can watch official music videos on YouTube, how is that any different?

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I download movies if I want a movie on my mobile phone. I know I probably shouldn't because more often than not I do not own the movie, but I don't care - there is no other way of purchasing full movies in .3gp format and even if there was I'll be damned if I'm paying money for a 2x2 inch version of Cloverfield. That's like morons who pay a load of money for "realtone" ringtones (or indeed any magazine or TV advertised mobile phone content). But hey - people go on about downloading music which makes me laugh. You can watch official music videos on YouTube, how is that any different?

Why don't you buy the film and convert it yourself?

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I'm damned if I'm paying all that purely for a mobile phone sized movie.

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olobley-1428101221
olobley-1428101221 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I download movies if I want a movie on my mobile phone. I know I probably shouldn't because more often than not I do not own the movie, but I don't care - there is no other way of purchasing full movies in .3gp format and even if there was I'll be damned if I'm paying money for a 2x2 inch version of Cloverfield. That's like morons who pay a load of money for "realtone" ringtones (or indeed any magazine or TV advertised mobile phone content). But hey - people go on about downloading music which makes me laugh. You can watch official music videos on YouTube, how is that any different?

Depends on how much your time is worth though. Assuming you're on minimum wage (I'm not saying you are, but lets use that as a worst case scenario). That's what, £5/hour now? Your non-working time is generally viewed at being worth 1.75x the rate of your working time (1.5x on Sats, 2x on Sundays), thus your personal time can be assigned a rate of £8.75/hour --> 14.6p/min. The ringtones cost maybe £2 off the telly? (again, this is a grey area for me as I tend to switch off when I see those adverts, but £2 seems reasonable to me). Looking at it from a purely 'is it worth it' perspective, if you spend any more than about 13 and a half minutes to get the mp3, cut out the bit you actually want to use as a ringtone, clean the audio up and then convert it to a format your phone understands, then you're 'better off' poneying up the £2 and downloading said realtone off the telly...

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Colio-1428100791
Colio-1428100791 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

thats a good analogy Olly, but you forgot the fringe disadvantage of the tv realtones. The harrassing spam that you get afterwards...where sending stop to whatever number still doesnt seem to work. that then becomes 10p for every stop message + charge for every spam advert + time to sort the whole fricking mess on the phone to ofcom, network whoever. After that 13.5 minutes doesnt seem a bad way to create a ringtone.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Without meaning to derail into discussing mobile phone content, I'll follow up on your post Olly. Thirteen and a half minutes is a crazy amount of time to get any kind of MP3, but even ignoring that you're quite able to do your own thing as you get it. Regarding chopping it up, using something simple and free like Audacity (the same thing that I've used to record audio from YouTube vids that have a soundtrack I quite fancy) will take a matter of seconds, maybe a minute if you make a mistake. Admittedly not everybody in the world has the internet, but they aren't on this forum presumably, so nuts to them :p And Colio is quite right - most sign you up to a subscription service.

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TGK
TGK - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I am not one for dowloading games and shizzle illegal as I would rather have the C.D in my cupboard than have an illegal file on my computer

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Beanz
Beanz - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Word has it that Red Alert 3 is going to be SecuROM-tastic as well.

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I'm damned if I'm paying all that purely for a mobile phone sized movie.

So you only watch films on your phone/mp3 player and not on your tv or computer?

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Betty_Swallocks
Betty_Swallocks - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Not a pikey, just sensible, in real terms i help developers and companies in the long run by distributing there merchandise. Film wise i would rather watch a ripped version of a dvd with out all the piracy crap options and all that shizzle, dont get me wrong tho i will goto the cinema and pay to watch but dont expect me to pay fortunes on every film that i have seen at the cinema.

So what you're saying is that it's ok to pirate movies but not games? Don't the people who make movies deserve your support as much as games developers? Double standards?

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iNTOXiCATiON
iNTOXiCATiON - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Double standards, no far from it, We do films aswell !!! :P Plus i have 200+ legitimate dvds under my bed thanks to britannia video club back in its day (Not saying this is justifyable). I do go to the cinema, im just saying that im not happy paying 7quid for a cinema ticket then 10+ on a dvd to watch one more time. I wait for sky release or borrow or watch "else where". If somethings good then i will buy it longs im certain it will stand the test of time unlike what is under my bed ! I tend to buy boxsets of free to air telelvision series rather then films. On another note the piracy measures on games at the moment have not effected me at all in playing them and reinstalling them on differenct machines etc, well as of yet anyhow.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I am not one for dowloading games and shizzle illegal as I would rather have the C.D in my cupboard than have an illegal file on my computer

But you had no problems with giving me the CD to rip onto my computer? That's just as bad y'know.

So you only watch films on your phone/mp3 player and not on your tv or computer?

When and where did I say that? Films I've [I]downloaded[/I] I only watch on my phone. Films I've bought on DVD or VHS I watch on my TV (and believe me, I have quite the collection of movies - Cash Converters FTW). Regarding double standards - has anybody ever actually LOOKED at the copyright stuff on videos and DVDs? Ever had a movie day at school? Ever sold a movie to someone, or pawned it? Heck, even lent a movie to someone? Ever had a load of people come into your house to watch a movie? Ever watched a movie on a coach? Ever watched a movie where there's a chance someone else could be watching it? I've even got somewhere a rental copy of "Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy" that was sold to me, totally against the terms. (This post may not make much sense, I've just woken up so I apologise for any broken English) /EDIT Intoxication raises a good point. I'll give a very real example. I watched Kidulthood on YouTube and absolutely hated it. Really hated it. I hated it to the point where an avid fan got rather cross with me about how much I hated it. If I'd paid the £15 I saw it on sale for yesterday I'd have been furious. £15 for something I watched [I]once[/I]. Something I'd literally never watch again. Creep. A British horror movie. I paid for that on DVD, paid about a tenner. Hated it. It's in my cupboard right now, I could probably get it out and show you, but that'd be pointless. I hate it. I've never watched it since the day I bought it. Does that sound right to you? Yet Futurama - Bender's Big Score. I downloaded that (and I'll admit I cheekily watched that on my PC) but I'm buying the DVD once the movies come out as a boxset (unless both of the other ones suck as hard as BWABB, in which case I'll just get the DVD).

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

When and where did I say that? Films I've [I]downloaded[/I] I only watch on my phone. Films I've bought on DVD or VHS I watch on my TV (and believe me, I have quite the collection of movies - Cash Converters FTW).

You didn't that's why I was asking. So are you trying to say now then you only watch rubbish on your phone because you wont buy as surely if its good you would by it and then convert it?

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

No, I'm not saying that. If I like a movie I'll buy it. If I haven't seen a movie, or if I've seen it once, or if I just haven't got around to buying it yet I'll download it. If I don't like it after that then I won't buy it. There's exceptions - Cloverfield, for example, I downloaded and watched. I loved it in the cinema but eh... watching it again was kind of boring. Was nowhere near as good when you actually know what's gonna happen. And like I say, I'd rather take the time to download a movie that I'm only gonna watch once than pay money for a movie I'm only gonna watch once. I still buy DVD's and VHS like I say, and ignoring ROMs I don't download games, but meh. If I borrow a movie from a mate I'm technically going against the T+C anyway so I can't see much of a difference between borrowing a film and downloading it.

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Betty_Swallocks
Betty_Swallocks - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I think your over reacting there mate, whislt it does have activation its not a big issue at all, install / create a account which also lets you share your creatures online / login and play, theres no more hassle there than creating a online account. Are you so set in your ways with regards to anti piracy tactics that you refuse to even give it a go? If you dont like how they go about protecting there products then dont buy it rather than pirate it.

Sorry, I disagree. I don't think I'm overreacting at all. Securom is a root kit. The biggest problem I have with it is that it isn't transparent. Nobody seems to actually know what it really does and what it's potential capabilities are. Does it phone home periodically? Does it send information back? If so what is it sending? Can you tell me? How do you know what else it might be doing? When and if I can get satisfactory answers to those, and other questions I have about it then I will make a decision whether to allow it to be on my computer. Meanwhile I will continue to buy the product and find better ways of installing it without infecting my machine with this malware. And btw, technically I didn't pirate it. I used an alternative means of installing the product I had already paid for. (Sharing creatures? Meh, who cares. I just want to play the game. Online doesn't offer me anything I want from this game)

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

No, I'm not saying that. If I like a movie I'll buy it. If I haven't seen a movie, or if I've seen it once, or if I just haven't got around to buying it yet I'll download it. If I don't like it after that then I won't buy it. There's exceptions - Cloverfield, for example, I downloaded and watched. I loved it in the cinema but eh... watching it again was kind of boring. Was nowhere near as good when you actually know what's gonna happen. And like I say, I'd rather take the time to download a movie that I'm only gonna watch once than pay money for a movie I'm only gonna watch once. I still buy DVD's and VHS like I say, and ignoring ROMs I don't download games, but meh. If I borrow a movie from a mate I'm technically going against the T+C anyway so I can't see much of a difference between borrowing a film and downloading it.

If your only going to watch it once surely that's what renting a film is for?

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

On a mobile phone? lol Or are you suggesting renting a movie and ripping it? Because isn't that just as bad? Have you ever borrowed a movie from a mate, just out of interest?

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

On a mobile phone? lol Or are you suggesting renting a movie and ripping it? Because isn't that just as bad? Have you ever borrowed a movie from a mate, just out of interest?

I really don't understand what your trying to say. Are you now saying a film you will only watch once you will only watch it on your phone? And yes I have as well as lent them.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

lol no, you're a little confused! I download movies if I want them on my mobile phone. Most of the time I don't own these movies, sometimes I haven't even seen them. If I particularly like one, I'll buy it. If not, I won't. And do you think lending a movie is any better than letting someone download a movie from you, and do you think borrowing a movie is better than downloading it?

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

lol no, you're a little confused! I download movies if I want them on my mobile phone. Most of the time I don't own these movies, sometimes I haven't even seen them. If I particularly like one, I'll buy it. If not, I won't. And do you think lending a movie is any better than letting someone download a movie from you, and do you think borrowing a movie is better than downloading it?

Ok I think I'm about there! So do you think its ok to download a film if you haven't seen it before rather then just going and renting it to see if you want to buy it or not? And yes I think its better to lend someone a proper copy of a film rather then downloading it as at least the film makers have actually make some money back as at least someone has purchased a copy rather then people downloading it and them getting nothing. I'm not saying its right but I'm saying its better then nothing.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

So you're ok borrowing a film? Isn't that why you'd rent it? I think it's ok to download whatever the hell you want, I've just given examples of what I do and just general tidbits of information. I don't think I've said it isn't right to download anywhere at all. Regarding the film makers getting some money back... I actually lol'd when I read that. Where do you think pirated copies of movies come from?

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Beanz
Beanz - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Beware - the [url=http://www.gameon.co.uk/game-gallery/displayimage.php?album=67&pos=25]less glamorous[/url] aspects of piracy ;)

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

So you're ok borrowing a film? Isn't that why you'd rent it? I think it's ok to download whatever the hell you want, I've just given examples of what I do and just general tidbits of information. I don't think I've said it isn't right to download anywhere at all. Regarding the film makers getting some money back... I actually lol'd when I read that. Where do you think pirated copies of movies come from?

Yer that's a fair enough point I guess. Looking at the quality of some of them you can either have a guy with a camcorder in the film or a screen with has watermarks on it or nowadays the best ones are the Russian R5's with resynced English audio if you can find a good source. Your not gonna make me roffle by trying to tell me that the film studios actually release ****ty copies of there films onto the Internet now are you? You make think its alright to download whatever you want but other people have other ideas on that. I'm pretty sure you would be p1ssed if you created something and found out instead of people buying it people where downloading it for free.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

RE: the last point - not really, if I'm totally honest. In fact, not that it's really on topic, I give tracks I do as ringtones for people, and the few times I've performed on stage has been for free. I've also helped out at two international events for free, one of which included dong interviews and stuff. I won't go into other stuff I've done without getting paid, but it's a rather long list, and there's no multi-million pound sum sitting behind it all either. People who sneak cameras into cinemas are still paying money to get in y'know. Most of the time anyway, and if they don't then that's their problem. Also, you sound remarkably clueless about downloading stuff - I personally only got for DVD rips because they're of good quality. I do indeed think it's alright to download whatever I want, just as you think it's fine to lend movies out. There's really no difference when you look at it with a logical mind.

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

RE: the last point - not really, if I'm totally honest. In fact, not that it's really on topic, I give tracks I do as ringtones for people, and the few times I've performed on stage has been for free. I've also helped out at two international events for free, one of which included dong interviews and stuff. I won't go into other stuff I've done without getting paid, but it's a rather long list, and there's no multi-million pound sum sitting behind it all either. People who sneak cameras into cinemas are still paying money to get in y'know. Most of the time anyway, and if they don't then that's their problem. Also, you sound remarkably clueless about downloading stuff - I personally only got for DVD rips because they're of good quality. I do indeed think it's alright to download whatever I want, just as you think it's fine to lend movies out. There's really no difference when you look at it with a logical mind.

Clueless about downloading stuff where do you get that idea? You never mentioned untill now that you only download dvd quality and im afraid im not a mind reader. Im afraid in my logical mind there is. If everyone downloaded films rather then renting them or buying them then they would simply go bust and you wouldnt get anything. If copies are purchased then obvisley they are making some money and therefore wont go bust so easily anyway and they will make more films. Like I said before I'm not saying its right but I'm saying its better then nothing.

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olobley-1428101221
olobley-1428101221 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I do indeed think it's alright to download whatever I want, just as you think it's fine to lend movies out. There's really no difference when you look at it with a logical mind.

Logically there is a difference. In the lending it out scenario, the content has been purchased once. With the downloading one however the purchase never occurs. additionally, the scale is vastly different. Nex lending a DVD to his mates can only be watched by so many people in a given timescale. With downloading, it can be downloaded by thousands (witness how many seeds/leechers there were for Prison Break 4x01 the other day)

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Colio-1428100791
Colio-1428100791 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Also, you sound remarkably clueless about downloading stuff -

oh dear.

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iNTOXiCATiON
iNTOXiCATiON - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Edit total steer in the wrong direction of the thread !! Nothing to see here :)

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I wasn't trying to sound nasty - I thought you'd know downloading movies such as Cloverfield (which I've mentioned before) could be done using DVD rips. No need to assume I was attacking him guys :p And again, the purchase has occurred - somebody has had to buy the DVD in the first place. Therefore it is technically no different to lending your DVD out to people. And yes, there are times when thousands of people will download the same thing (see The Dark Knight) but then there are times when thousands of people won't. To follow on using The Dark Knight as an example - I hardly think people downloading it meant the producers had to go hungry for a month.

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I wasn't trying to sound nasty - I thought you'd know downloading movies such as Cloverfield (which I've mentioned before) could be done using DVD rips. No need to assume I was attacking him guys :p And again, the purchase has occurred - somebody has had to buy the DVD in the first place. Therefore it is technically no different to lending your DVD out to people. And yes, there are times when thousands of people will download the same thing (see The Dark Knight) but then there are times when thousands of people won't. To follow on using The Dark Knight as an example - I hardly think people downloading it meant the producers had to go hungry for a month.

You seriousley think its better for just 1 copy to be brought and ripped and shared all over the world on the Internet then for people to buy it in the shops and let there m8s borrow it? You really cant see the bigger picture can you even when its been explained to you. I didn't know the Dark Knight was out on dvd yet by the way.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I didn't say I thought it was better. Why are you assuming I've said this? And I didn't say The Dark Knight [I]was[/I] out on DVD. You seem to have missed the point again. I'll try make this really simple because to be honest I'm getting bored of chasing my own tail here - debates are rather hard when somebody is taking a slightly hypocritical "holier-than-thou" attitude. Do you think that if right now 10,000 people downloaded The Dark Knight the producers would feel it? No. Not at all. They've earned more money from that movie than you or I could ever hope to earn in our entire lifetimes. So who [I]cares[/I] if it gets downloaded? I think it's funny how according to you piracy seems to be really bad but lending movies out that you own no rights to is apparently fine. They are the SAME THING and I see them as the same thing. One might be on a grander scale, but they're the same thing never the less. Next you'll be telling me it's fine to steal a bike because it's better than stealing a car.

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Colio-1428100791
Colio-1428100791 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

so what your saying Tony and please correct me if I'm wrong is that The producers after raking in a lot of money (note I dont use the word profit) from the cinema release will not feel the pinch if you a lowly citizen in this big big world download a copy of their film from the interweb (quality aside here) Ok so tell me are you the only person who downloads the movie? Are you one of ten?, one of twenty? If so then I expect your argument would carry some merit. However I expect the real number to be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. Sure I dont have figures to back my statements up, but its an educated guess. So there are hundred thousand fat tonys in the world, all saying the same thing. Surely the producers are likely to feel the pinch then? Lets add some quantifiable facts to this: The dark knights budget was approximately $180 - 185 million ([url=http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080803235632AAkePkC]source[/url] In addition marketing costs could be between $50 - 100 million ([url=http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2008/07/12/marketing_the_dark_knight/]Source[/url]) So conservatively its cost approx $250 million to make and market. Right it would appear the DK took about $500 million at the box office ([url=http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=5695432]source[/url]) Now the next thing to take into account is how much of that box office takings goes back in the "film kitty" to provide funding for more projects. Dont forget for every blockbuster there are usually a couple of turkeys (straight to dvd films). So instead of hte substantial profits that you say people make Id estimate they earn a comfortable living yes, but the funds will be reused to reinvest in the film industry. Then you move to dvds. Frankly Im bored of looking. My point is films/games/music whatever costs money to make. Whether you agree with it or not piracy DOES take money away from future projects. The thought that just by skimming the surface you hardly dent the funds is slightly naive. Naive from the point as I said earlier there are at least AT LEAST 100,000 of you, Id nearer suspect AT LEAST millions but alas I cant quantify it. Now dont read this and think Im coming from the holier than thou crowd. Thats not it. Ive downloaded games, movies music in the past and to some extents still do...its purely lack of effort on my part that I dont continue. What I disagree with is the somewhat "justification" you give to yourself saying it doesnt hurt anyone. Its such a bullsh1t excuse. You download movies/music whatever because you can. You have no real concern for the consequences for your actions, because hey your getting something for free, its a "victimless" crime right? All Im saying is dont try and justify it unless you can adequately support your justification. Just admit that you do it because you can. You have no moral stance on the matter and you are prepared to suffer the consequences of your actions SHOULD you ever be required to? because believe me, saying "it doesnt hurt the producers" wouldnt stand up in a court of law.

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Colio-1428100791
Colio-1428100791 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Just as a side note. dont take it as a scathing attack Tony. Also (i think it was this thread) Olly made a good point about effort vs money. For me time is everything, money while Im not flush, I do have some disposable income. I have Dexter season 2 all the eps sat on my PS3, because a friend of a friend gave them to me. You know what I've watched one - it was the one my Sky + failed to record. - The ones on sky are better quality as is the sound. I have no qualms spending my money on products if I know they are going to be a better quality and easier to use than ones I download. the fringe benefit is I do stay the right side of the law. On the downside to that sometimes when I spend I have to accept that the product might not live up to my expectations (jumper for example). So I lose there. I couldve simply saved a bit of money and rented it. I may have saved more by reading reviews about it. But those are the consequences of me doing things the right way. People situations differ, some may have more money than me, some will not. Just remember there are consequences to your actions...some you'll see, some you wont.

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Nex-1428100754
Nex-1428100754 - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

I didn't say I thought it was better. Why are you assuming I've said this? And I didn't say The Dark Knight [I]was[/I] out on DVD. You seem to have missed the point again. I'll try make this really simple because to be honest I'm getting bored of chasing my own tail here - debates are rather hard when somebody is taking a slightly hypocritical "holier-than-thou" attitude. Do you think that if right now 10,000 people downloaded The Dark Knight the producers would feel it? No. Not at all. They've earned more money from that movie than you or I could ever hope to earn in our entire lifetimes. So who [I]cares[/I] if it gets downloaded? I think it's funny how according to you piracy seems to be really bad but lending movies out that you own no rights to is apparently fine. They are the SAME THING and I see them as the same thing. One might be on a grander scale, but they're the same thing never the less. Next you'll be telling me it's fine to steal a bike because it's better than stealing a car.

I guess I keep missing the points because you keep not explaining yourself. Simple as we have made it for you and again about chasing are own tails you cant seem to grasp the concept of what you do is seriousley wrong and in case you didn't notice nobody else is going along with your theory. Just because a company has made money of a film that doesn't automatically give you the right to download it as they have made the money back as obviously they need more money take make new films. Using 1 film as an example isn't really fair either as there are plenty of other films out there especially a lot of British ones that will never make that kind of money. I never said lending a film I own out was fine I said and I repeat myself for a 3rd time its not right but its better then nothing. You say I'm clueless about downloading stuff I say your just clueless. Nuff said from me time to move on.

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Platinum
Platinum - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

For once I agree with Nex :confused:, Fat Tony it does matter how many people download a film, its still wrong and its still stealing hard earned cash from all the people that have worked on the project. Hell im not sqeeky clean but at least I understand that piracy is wrong and how it affects people. Say we all downloaded the film, hey its ok because they made some money from the Cinema, now the money made is going to be a lot less that they would have made if we didnt download it. Now this means theres less money in there pot for future films so the amount of films released will go down and probably the quality as well. Eventualy it may get to a point where no one makes any films anymore, want it to get like that? Because people with your attitude on piracy are helping to make that possible future a reality. Reality is that if you download then your a thief end off, granted not on the scale of stealing a bike or as low on the scale of pinching sweets from a pick and mix but a theif non the less.

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FatTonyBBX
FatTonyBBX - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

But it still isn't any different to lending movies to mates. Why can't anybody see that? All very good points above. It all comes down to personal opinion at the end of the day. Love all round from me.

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Platinum
Platinum - 03:01pm, 18th July 2016

Stealing the movie via download and lending it to your mates is different, you lend it then there's still only one copy that one person can view, download it and both of you have a copy which both of you can view. I can see your point and if that's how you justify theft to yourself then fine mate but its still wrong :p

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